I often hear that the increased hosting costs associated with Ruby on Rails' larger than average footprint is more than offset by the increased dev productivity. It follows that Rails salaries being pretty high at the moment is offset by being able to maintain a smaller, more productive team.

Does anyone know of any case studies where someone's actually done the numbers on that?

It "feels right" to me, but I'd be interested to read other's experiences.

@jsrn I'm sceptical. Developers worth their salt would factor out all the boilerplate in any system to increase productivity and reduce code debt. This is certainly doable in Ruby, or most other modern languages.
That said, I don't have any data. It would be interesting to compare Rails and say, Django, or something 'serverless'…

@andy_twosticks @jsrn I think that might be part of why rails /is/ so dev friendly. There was a Rails Conf keynote a few years back about "conceptual compression". As an example, you don't need to learn SQL to start a rails project.

So much work has been done by the community to make rails behave in generally the right way, by default, that devs can focus on what makes their project unique.

@bcgoss @jsrn There's certainly an initial gain to be had, but as with all frameworks -- even a good one like Rails -- you eventually end up fighting it. Getting Rails to scale and be performant is not easy. And while you don't need SQL when you start, you will definitely need it by the end. And this is a pattern I see repeated…

@andy_twosticks @jsrn people often say that but that has not been my experience working with large rails applications. Rails itself is rarely the blocker

@bcgoss @andy_twosticks @jsrn For every mature Rails app I've worked on, there's had to be some subset of people that understands SQL. It doesn't need to be everyone (and you could probably get away with very few for quite a while), but at some point someone has to tune queries.

@jgaskins I agree with that. It doesn't completely hide the SQL, but you can get by for longer and with fewer SQL experts than you would rolling your SQL or ORM by hand. *Most* of the time you spend *most* of your effort on delivering business value, rather than reinventing tooling. And sometimes you gotta work on tools 🤷‍♂️

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